October 5, 2004

Edwards versus the President

Edwards did well against the President tonight. Oh, wait, Vice President. Riiiight.

The VP was always looking down, around, snickering, holding his hands over the microphone and mumbling. I have to say he was strong in the beginning, especially with the response after Edwards second Halliburton jab. But after that he sorta dropped away. After a while his had this attitude like, "I was done after 30 minutes. Aren't we done? We're done."

Edwards was effective in a home-spun style way. He wasn't as succinct as Kerry. He tried to land a blow or two and the kinda glanced. His delivery showed his inexperience.

I'd give this one to Edwards, but it wasn't the ass-whuppin' that Kerry put on Bush.

Posted by jherr at October 5, 2004 8:32 PM
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I tuned into the last 45 minutes of the debate last night. I expected to see Edwards, who I believe to be a fantastic public speaker, slam dunk Cheney, who is typically pretty low key and almost sullen. That was far from the case.

Edwards seemed to have been coached to mention last week's debate at every opportunity.

Neither one was willing to answer any question without going off on their own agendas.

That said, just looking at the two men, Edwards was on the defensive all night (while I watched). He looked lost even. Yes, Cheney looked his typical doll, dull self, but, he looked in control. Perhaps it was the roll Edwards was to play last night, but he didn't look like a leader, didn't act like a leader. He looked and acted like a puppet for Kerry--which is something I think makes them both look weak.

I also think your picture could be misleading. Just because two people are in a room together, even standing next to each other, doesn't mean they've introduced themselves and shook hands. I think that's necessary to "meet" someone. Perhaps they did shake hands and say hi. But that's not indicated in this photo.

Serious question, can you explain to me the democratic position on Israel/Palestine? I listed closely when they were talking about this last night, but I'm thinking I misheard some information due to children/dogs.

Cheney wrote his name into a speech. Gotta say that you are clinging to straws say that he 'never met him' unless he shook his hand.

As to Isreal/Palenstine. It's the usual stuff. Isreal has the right to protect itself. Palestine has legitimate issues. We think the Gaza pullout is a good move. Arafat is not for the peace plan. Isreal needs real engaged allies, which they are not getting with Bush/Cheney. It's not significantly different from Clinton/Gore.

The two sides aren't significantly distinguished in policy on Isreal/Palestine. Edwards just critiqued the lack of progress made and said that they would do better.

No straws and I'm not clinging to anything--just making an observation. I was thanked at a recent event by someone whom I've never met. Sure I know who he is, but he wouldn't know me from Adam, nor have I ever been formally or informally introduced. Just an observation.

I'm at a loss understanding the Israel/Palestine issue as I am with other "holy wars" and our role in them. Why are we engaged in defending either side in what is essentially an unwinnable argument? People are willing to die for their religious beliefs--it's why they have suicide bombers all over the world and why there are "holy wars".

Religious beliefs. It's something that's emotional, not logical. They're beliefs and you frankly can not argue with someone's belief system, no matter how much you may diagree with it.

I don't understand how we, as a country, can say one side is right over another. Who am I to say that the disputed territory there is either Israeli or Palestinian holy land when they both claim the same piece of land as their holiest place on earth? I simply don't understand our involvement and why a more allied front will help over there--especially if they hate us as much as many news agencies are reporting. And why is it our problem to solve?

Clinging at straws? Man, I shouldn't answer questions early in the morning.

Anyway, they sat together for two hours, shook hands, and Cheney also met him when he was introduced to the freshman class. At which point I would have to say I have met someone.

As to Isreal/Palestine, I must admit that I haven't spent much time on it. I don't know why we are supporting one side or another, or supporting any side at all. What I can say is that I want peace there, and that Clinton did a lot to promote dialogue between the parties. Bush never tried. From day one he wanted to ignore the situation. I think abdicating our unique role in the world to use our power and position to promote peace.

We should be involved in the world. We should be trying to bring clean drinking water to Africa. We should be involved in bringing an end to ethnic cleansing, wherever it is, not just in oil rich countries. We should be involved in trying to stop the spread of nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction, but that doesn't mean we need to invade any country where the UPS guy carrying the parts went.

I agree with you about religion. Only in countries that don't prefer any particular religion, and which separate the legal role of government from the spiritual role of religion, can people feel safe to practice their own religion.

In a very simplified nutshell:

All three monothiestic religions (Judiasm, Christianity, Islam) believe in the same god. Yaweh - adapted from the pagen sun god. God promised canaan to the Jewish people, his chosen people. He freed the from slavery in Egypt and let them through the desert to what is now Israel. The Jews took the land by war. The original inhabitants were killed or exiled or kept as slaves - mostly killed. The temple that the Jewish King Solomon built to glorify god was built in Jerusalem. It was demolished by the Romans. A second temple was built and it was destroyed, too. The only remaining part of it is the west wall - the wailing wall. It is a most holy site for Jews.

Jesus of Nazareth was born, lived, preached, and died in this same territory. So it is the holy land for Christians.

Muhammed also preached from this territory - although I don't know all of his history and why Jerusalem is the second holiest site for Muslims. Their most important site is Mecca. I do know that Muhammed is a decendant of Abraham, just as Jesus is. But I'm still in a nutshell, so I'll try to be concise.

The Jews, as a people, not only as a religion, have been persecuted throughout history. They have been slaughtered, exiled, scattered around the globe. In 1948, Great Britain gave part of a territory they owned back to the Jews, with UN approval. That land is Israel.

The Palestinians are the people who were displaced when Israel was formed and borders were drawn. None of the bordering Arab countries were willing to take the refugees - partly as protest. Despite Israel's attempts to help them build modern cities, they have lived in refugee camps and settlements for 40 years - trying to get their land back.

We support Israel, partly because they are the only other democracy in the middle east. They are modern and civilized. Partly because the Arab nations that surround them have tried to annihilate them from every angle - by land, sea and air. They are our allies.

Apparently another part of the story is that the book of revelations is sometimes interpreted to say that Israel must exist in order for the second coming of Christ.

I think it's gotten a lot of play because of 9/11, which looked pretty end-timey, and the insanely popular Left Behind series, which was all about the end-times.

Anyway, some conservative stuff on it here:


I can't really follow it myself. I tried Googling around and found lots of stuff about revelations, the rapture, premillenialist, postmillenialist, the 1,000 year kingdom, and all that. Couldn't really follow it.

Seems to me like Bush's repealing of 30 years of environmental policy, ignoring global warming, giving the head of the EPA job to the head coal industry lobbyist, head of the forestry service to the head limber company lobbyist, poisoning our air and water, will have us living in the 'end times' a lot sooner than the stuff that's supposed to happen in revelations.

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